From Structure to Story: Beatrice Galilee on Rethinking Architecture's Narrative

Architecture is more than just buildings – it’s a powerful lens through which to understand our world. In this episode of the Culture Shifts Podcast, I’m joined by Beatrice Galilee, curator, writer, and founder of The World Around, a global platform spotlighting the most impactful ideas in architecture and design.

We explore how architecture can become a vehicle for social and environmental transformation – from telling deeper stories about the spaces we live in, to fostering real-world solutions through interdisciplinary collaboration. Beatrice shares the mission behind The World Around and the Young Climate Prize, which amplifies the voices of young innovators from the Global South.

Together, we discuss the role of storytelling in architecture, the importance of solution-based design, and why architecture belongs at the heart of global conversations and not just on the sidelines.

Subscribe to the Culture Shifts Podcast on your favorite platform, and follow us on Instagram, LinkedIn, Substack, or visit cultureshifts.net to stay connected.

Transcript

Beatrice Galilee (00:02.894)
I do feel that design is a place for solutions. It's one of the big things that we as a species can do is design things, invent things, solve problems. What's really interesting is the story behind the building. I really wanted to do something for the next generation. Something like 84 % of people under 25 are very concerned about the future.

Moritz Gaudlitz (00:29.07)
Architecture is all around us, yet we rarely hear the stories it holds. A building can reflect systems of power, social change, or environmental urgency. But too often, architecture is communicated through a narrow lens, a finished structure, a celebrated name, a polished photo. So how do we tell a deeper story, one that includes the materials, the context, the innovation, and the lives within? In an age shaped by environmental, political, and social urgency,

Architecture can't just be about former prestige. It has to ask harder questions about land, labor, access and impact. And to do that, we need new platforms and new ways of curating ideas.

Moritz Gaudlitz (01:13.324)
Welcome to another episode of the Culture Shifts Podcast. I'm Moritz Gautlitz and today I'm joined by Beatrice Galilee. Beatrice is a curator, writer and cultural strategist who has spent her career expanding the ways we talk about and experience architecture. Through storytelling, in exhibitions, books and public talks, she brings visibility to design ideas that tackle real world issues and connect disciplines. She's the founder and executive director of The World Around, a global nonprofit platform with a clear but ambitious mission to make the best new ideas in architecture accessible to all. Through exhibitions, a summit in New York City and the Young Climate Prize, the world around connects impactful design with urgent global conversations. From her time as the first curator of contemporary architecture and design at the Met to her book, Radical Architecture of the Future, Beatrice continues to shift how we communicate architecture and who gets to be part of that conversation.

Hello Beatrice, thanks so much for joining the podcast. Thank you. I've been talking with my latest guests a lot about design, a lot about architecture and a lot about the role of architecture and design. I would like to start the conversation and this podcast with something that is also a bit more tangible for the listeners and would like to ask you if there's a recent building or space or even piece of design or something super abstract that left a strong impression on you and then also why.

Beatrice Galilee (02:40.95)
Yeah, absolutely. I'm constantly exposed to probably the best of all architecture and design as that's my job to seek it out. So I am kind of constantly excited and stimulated by what architects and designers are doing. In a nutshell, there is a Thai architect who created a pavilion for oyster farmers who had been struggling to sell the oysters from their fresh

where they've been farming the oysters and trying to get them to restaurants. And the oysters were going off in transit, you know, because of the warm temperatures and issues with cooling and refrigeration. And this is pretty common problem, especially in developing countries, the issue of like fresh food to refrigeration to,

restaurant. so the architect intervened and created a floating restaurant actually where the oyster beds are. And this restaurant is like this all made of bamboo, entirely made of bamboo. And it's tied together with seat belts because in this particular part of Thailand is where they have a car factory. So there's a lot of discarded parts. So there's this kind of interesting combination of this beautiful

ocean view with this bamboo platform covered by this very bright red kind of fishing net that's used as a shade and all of the bamboo is tied together with these very, very strong seat belts. So it's this beautiful kind of local, you know, solution based architecture where people can go like row out to this place and have the freshest oysters and the fishermen are able to make money from their work. So that's the most recent thing I've seen that was very inspiring to me.

Moritz Gaudlitz (04:25.038)
Fantastic. Thank you so much. mean, I'm not just super excited about this, but also hungry now. mean, for all those who like oysters, this is a fantastic story. And it basically not only brings me to my next question, it answered my next question already, because my next question would have been how do you approach storytelling from a building's perspective? And I guess as you just did, or maybe there are also other approaches.

That's an interesting question because the work that I do is a curator of architecture, is essentially a curator of stories about architecture because inherently you cannot curate architecture. You can either commission it, build it, you can go to it, but to curate it, you're essentially talking about what you find interesting, what one finds interesting about the building. So I do think of myself, my work, the platform, the world around as a way of trying to draw out those really

fundamental stories about architecture where you see the transformation, know, the agency of great design, the agency of a great building, a great solution, and how it's changed the space, how it's improved the lives of people in a certain community, how it's overcome an obstacle or created a new pathway. And so for me, the architecture that I'm interested in is this type of almost architecture with agency, with kind of activism embedded in it. where there is this natural story of a problem and a solution overcome using design and architecture.

Thank you so much. mentioned the world around. I will try to talk about this a bit later. I just wanted maybe to start a bit about what you've been doing, what you're still doing. You come from architecture as far as I know, but also more than that, a curator, a co-founder of the world around the initiative that is also about architecture and design. So I just wanted to talk about, again, this idea of the solution, the problem or the problem and the solution in architectural spaces or even in design. Because if I think about

Moritz Gaudlitz (06:19.84)
architecture, I always think about a house or like a building that has a purpose and maybe also causes more problems than bring solutions. I don't know, because of aesthetics or because of city planning that is not really working well. But if we look at solution-based architecture and design, how is there like a special, let's say strategy or also like ideas on, what's your idea on how to build solution-based architecture or work on solution-based design?

It's just a form of practice, meaning it actually is a pretty normal way that many, architects operate and many designs operate. It's just less known. And so in a way, the goal of the curatorial platform, the world around is to broadcast and amplify and champion this type of solutions based design and architecture, civic, social and function, tackling big issues. These are the type of.

projects and practices that we elevate specifically because they are less known and specifically because they have a potential for scalability and to inspire people to replicate, to learn from, improve also their own environment or to improve others. So the reason that we have this platform and that we

archive all of our talks and programs and initiatives on the website is so that people can learn more about these type of projects and hopefully get behind them as well.

Okay, great. Thank you so much. So the world around, there's going to be a summit this year, in the recent years as well in New York City. And yeah, you bring together the leading voices of architecture, design, environmental practice, thinkers, artists, et cetera. What are the urgent matters and the topics of this year's edition? Or is there one topic that is always urgent?

Beatrice Galilee (08:08.91)
We're co-curating this year's edition with the Ambas Institute for Architecture in the Built Environment at MoMA. So we're working at the Museum of Art with their curatorial department that's specifically looking at architecture in the environment. So there's a really big underlying theme, that thread that runs through the whole summit, which is looking at the relationship that architecture design has to the built environment, specifically regarding how we can

use architecture in a way to not just address the climate crisis, but also to positively repair what are the voices in the architecture community that are really trying to do something different that we can learn from, be inspired by. So there are lots of solutions in this particular year. There's also museums and cultural projects, but the kind of big thread is going to be around the environment.

And so it means that basically what happens during these days started already before with initiatives with you going around the world or the world around and speaking to people, getting interesting people together initiatives. And there's a price also of younger people that take part of this conversation and also the initiative. So this is just the top of what happens before.

Yeah, exactly. if you like, can share a little bit about the interested. So the prize is something that emerged after we had started a lot of the talks and conferences that we had been working on and had had a lot of success with, and people have been enthusiastic attending and kind of asking what's next for the world around. And I really wanted to do something for the next generation.

Please.

Beatrice Galilee (09:52.046)
Something like 84 % of people under 25 are very concerned about the future. And, you know, I had a conversation with a friend of mine's daughter who told me that at age 14, she didn't want to have children. She couldn't imagine having a family in the future. And I started to understand that the future was something, the idea that tomorrow was going to be worse than yesterday is not something I had experienced in my life.

my adolescence, my adulthood, and it's something that young people today, specifically under 25, are feeling and they're right. And so again, like going back to your question about solution-based design, you know, I do feel that design is a place for solutions. It's one of the big things that we as a species can do is design things, invent things, solve problems. And so the idea of finding the young people who are

trying to use design to solve the problems of the climate crisis was the big push behind the award. So we provide mentorship and support for 25 under 25 every two years. So the prize is a mentorship and an award program where the world around transfers knowledge, skills and expertise to a cohort of 25 people. All of those 25 are from all over the world, anywhere that you can imagine.

And they are people that have invented things, created things. They could have invented materials or products. they could be poets, videographers, researchers, curators, anything that is a sort of solution based practice with the climate. And we connect them with mentors in the design and architecture space from our previous speakers from the world around.

And that is a program that takes around one year to complete. And then at the summit, we will have three winners. So there's a jury that looked at all 25 projects and selected three winners to come to New York and speak at the summit, receive an award, and start to kind of really amplify and tell the story of their works and try to uplift those particular people. So we're super excited about that. It's only the second year that we've finished the Young Climate Prize. So we're thrilled. We're really excited for it.

Moritz Gaudlitz (11:56.782)
Fantastic. You said from all around the world, is there still like a focus or if we maybe do not focus so much on maybe the West or the North, is there also nice ideas from the global South? I guess also that there are also different pressing challenges regarding climate change and crises.

The lion's share of applications came from the African continent. We really are seeing incredible innovation and enthusiasm and invention, specifically from the African continent. But this year we have people from Indonesia, from Philippines. We've had people from Bangladesh in a refugee camp in Algeria, people experiencing incredible hardship and who have been inspired to make a change themselves and use design.

to improve their own lives and the lives of others around them. And in general, it is the people that are experiencing the worst of the climate crisis that are the ones who have the best ideas about how to implement solutions. And yes, it's been very humbling, of course, to work with these young people and also very inspiring.

Yeah, great. guess this keyword of implementation and ideas, this is something that is probably also a bit, let's say, critical because sometimes an idea is nice, but hard to implement. And there I would like to know maybe an example, maybe not from this year, because maybe they cannot be disclosed yet, but maybe from last year's prize. Can you give us or me or the listeners an example of what won maybe? What was one of the winning projects? Yeah.

Absolutely last year there were three winners one of them David Camara is based in Sierra Leone and he was inspired by his grandfather to who when they grew up were struggling to create mud based homes for their chickens.

Beatrice Galilee (13:47.404)
His grandfather had kind of started to use plastic bags to try to make the kind of mud structures a little more resilient to the weather. And David and him and his father and his grandfather, they all started to work together and realized that plastic could be used to as a kind of structural aggregate in a way to create this new form of material. And so David went to the beach, started picking all of the plastic waste from the ocean and started to process all of the plastic waste.

And not only clean the beach, but also start to generate this new material. So he uses plastic waste to create architectural tiles, floor tiles, kind of like an alternative to breeze block that can be used and now are being used to create floors, patios, hospital car parks, know, really simple industrial idea that has huge potential. So he won last year and well, two years ago he won and.

now has had enormous success with his business and has won other awards, got on to win other awards. And with his award money, he has actually started his own school where he's encouraging other young people to use business as a way to get out of poverty and to improve their lives.

Fantastic. That's super. also that your platform then is a kind of accelerator also for people who want to invest money and want to use the ideas and the innovations and visions that the young creators and designers and architects have.

Exactly and this year we have a young woman in Bolivia and she's using a very interesting technique she's from an indigenous community and their lake has been polluted by mining illegal mining and they found out that there's a plant called the toro plant that naturally filters metal out of the water so they have been working to implement planting this toro plant.

Beatrice Galilee (15:40.204)
and creating these rafts that allow the tutorial plant to absorb the minerals from the water and starting to clean the lake using indigenous knowledge. So outside of business, you know, there's really thoughtful processes and ideas that can be applicable to other contexts. So for example, the use of the tutorial plant could be applied to other regional things in Latin America.

Yeah. And I think what I think about also not only other contexts, also other regions, I guess, because maybe there are some people, I guess they are that say, I mean, I don't care what's going on in Sierra Leone. Don't get me wrong. I'm just quoting some random person that might say that, but then in the end, this is a solution that could be applicable everywhere. And I think therefore a platform is interesting, no? And I would be interested in like that your platform.

the world around brings all these ideas together and you can look at them. You can just look at them and say, Hey, wow, I can use it also in, I don't know, Texas or Eastern Germany.

Exactly. And I think it's also about feeling a bit of hope. especially as I was saying, young people are looking at tomorrow with trepidation. And I think that creating a platform the way that we have where people can learn and see that there are ideas, there are people motivated and really getting amazing stuff done can be quite valuable in times when things feel a little unsafe and insecure, that it's kind of nice and reassuring to know that there are people who are out there doing great work.

Fantastic. Little disclaimer for all the listeners. mean, of course, Germany, not Eastern Germany, because it doesn't exist anymore. It's just like a more regional Northern Germany, can say also, but this has absolutely nothing to do with this conversation here. Many of today's pressing challenges, let's say most pressing challenges, you mentioned climate change. Obviously one of the biggest. Urbanization displacement that are related to climate change as well, or also other reasons, they require thinking that goes a bit beyond just the straight thinking.

Moritz Gaudlitz (17:38.458)
more interdisciplinary thinking. How do you guarantee that with the world around or do you do it? And what's there also your approach in your work as a curator, as a consultant, as a thinker, as an architect? How important is collaboration for your work and your initiatives?

fundamental and you know, I use myself as a case in point for our audience in the sense that I would not personally want to go to a conference of just architects. I actually really need to understand other disciplines and architects also need to understand what's going on in other disciplines in order to be better architects. So being interdisciplinary is fundamental and I think

really architecture is such a fascinating discipline because of its inherently collaborative nature. It is something that requires knowledge of a place of people, materials, of society, a kind of imagination about the future, a deep understanding of the present, dealing with clients, dealing with engineers, dealing with structures, resilience.

sometimes reparation, it's an industry and a discipline that is fundamentally interdisciplinary. And so you can't really talk about architecture without talking about other disciplines to me.

Thank you. Is this something that is rather new or has that been there since ever? Because what I just see or like when I look around or when I visit or attend panels or events that this whole interdisciplinary movement started, let's say some years ago, before it was very like, from my point of view, everything was very linear, maybe not just architects, but maybe then architects and builders and construction workers. And then

Moritz Gaudlitz (19:23.744)
artists and curators and gallerists and musicians and music producers and festival attendees or so. And now it's mingling. And even companies realize, I feel, that this discourse helps also building new, not just brands, but also new narratives.

think it's also the possibility of collaboration helps a lot and also the possibility that you yourself can merge between careers and lives. I that potentially the sense of unilateral careers maybe belong to a more stable time where you would be able to just have one job forever. And I think that now people are understanding that in order to survive, we also need to collaborate, we need to work together. Architecture is not a stable.

career path for many people you need to be able to also teach you need to be able to also create maybe some products maybe if you're a product designer it would be great to be part of a bigger discussion about material science i think that we're we're moving in a time where we sort of need one another we understand that it's it's not helpful to be siloed

Okay. Did you study architecture in the beginning? Was it your first studies, your first major?

I studied architecture, but I'm not an architect. I've never done any kind of architecture construction. I haven't passed any exam about being an architect. I studied architecture and I studied architectural history. Then I started a PhD in architecture, which I did not finish. I'm definitely in the culture of architecture.

Moritz Gaudlitz (20:54.094)
Okay, fantastic. No, I'm just asking because if we think about this idea that architecture is in every one of us and it's important to not just create and build cities and the world around us, but also the future and make it a better place, let's say, maybe everyone should start studying architecture or at least read like a basic book about architecture or listen to an architectural podcast.

It's funny because this podcast started as something that is based on solutions and culture and interdisciplinary people. But I realized that the more I talk to people that are in the field of design and architecture, the more they are the ones that thrive. The change around us. I don't know if it's just me, but I feel that there is a movement that these voices are more more important in the general discourse.

Definitely that I have found since I started the world around that even people in my family have, my cousin is a social worker and she told me that she did not imagine that architecture had a voice, had a role to play in civic society and like building and knitting communities together. And it wasn't until she started watching and supporting the work that I'm doing that she starts to understand, architecture is such an interesting discipline. don't

think we really pay attention to it. don't know that we really think about the world around us as being designed. And Bruce Mao in our first conference said, you you live a designed life. We all live inside a designed environment. And that is something that is a kind of a mantra for us at The World Around where we're trying to explain to people what it is that the lives that we're living have been designed, the environments that we lived in, that we walk around in.

someone designed them for us. In many cases, they've been designed for a particular type of person. In many cases, our streets are designed for men, our cars are designed for a certain type of man, our uniforms. A lot of our environment has been designed for certain reasons. We have built our values. Our world is a representation of the goals and desires of the people with the wealth and resources to manifest them.

Beatrice Galilee (23:07.564)
And that's what our cities are made of. And so when you start to unpick that, you realize that, well, I have values and ideas too, and I can build them and I can change them. And that's how you have things like the High Line in New York, or you have things like the inventions of the people of the Young Climate Prize. When you realize that your environment is just someone made it, you can be that someone. Anyone can be that someone. And those are the types of moments and those are the types of ideas that we like to push and support.

That's fantastic. Thank you so much. And here I would like to ask you if you could draw a line between the idea of architecture and the idea of design. How do they merge? Are they the same or when are they completely something completely different?

I mean people say architecture and design a lot but you could also just as easily say architecture and geography or architecture and urbanism I mean it is an adjacent field but it's not any more or less similar than for example architecture and cities you know it's a scale to me they're not interchangeable.

I would like to come back to the part of the storytelling and the narratives around architecture design and your work. What makes a compelling story in this field and what are the main challenges to get stories heard? Because creating stories is something, but how do you make them heard also?

Well, I think that I work with the World Around filmmakers and funnily enough, there's two actresses as part of the World Around team. So they also are involved in filmmaking. So we have inbuilt in the infrastructure of the World Around natural storytellers, which is great. My background also is as a journalist. So I have been writing about architecture before I was curating architecture.

Beatrice Galilee (24:52.916)
So we have this kind of editorial and filmmaking team. We also now have an editor. So we have a lot of natural storytellers and writers that make up our team. So that makes it easy for us to kind of sniff out a story and like discuss the story. Is this going to be good? Is this going to be interesting? We just naturally start to filter it. And what's great about working with filmmakers and working with people with background in

acting and script writing and documentaries is that they strip a lot of the pretension away from the architectural conversation because architects can sometimes get a bit distracted by what they think is interesting or the very let's say industry conversation about references or know materials. I remember having a conversation with Satomi who's our head of production where she said what materiality is not a word.

Why architects keep saying materiality it's not a word and i said i don't know i mean i think we're just used to saying that it's not.

doesn't she's like, doesn't what does it even mean? And you realize that there is this sort of strange world of language that architects use to describe their buildings that are actually quite alienating. And what's really interesting is the story behind the building, the people, the context, the questions, the answers, the challenges, the tensions. That's what's interesting.

And architects, think, sometimes get in their own way when they talk about how they made it or these very, very sort of small but also important moments, which sometimes is better left to academic context. what we try and do at The World Around is kind of strip out anything that seems alienating or seems inaccessible and try and keep the kind of core story sort of alive and help people understand the story of the building or the story of the solution.

Moritz Gaudlitz (26:46.402)
Yeah, that's great. That's a bit also what I meant in the beginning when I said that maybe architecture sometimes causes more problems than brings up solutions is probably because of maybe not even the architects. I don't want to blame them. It's probably just the builder or the contractor, the one that invests in something. They invest in something that has no life yet inside. know, like there's no people, as you just said, there is no culture, there's no people, there is no story, there's no heart, no soul. But this is also, I think, a challenge. How do you create something?

for someone that is not there yet.

Yeah anything that's also where architects become fortune tellers or they have to imagine a lot they have to be right people use the space in this way or i hope that this will be used in that way and then it happens you know and i think that's what's so exciting about telling a single story about a building where you get to join the architect in the first person from the moment where they were presented with the problem i need a building that.

Is a school in this place because there isn't a school or i need a bridge here people need to get from this place to that place you know those types of moments like you see the context you zoom out you understand the why and then you start to kind of get into that okay how are we gonna do this and you know okay now we know why we're gonna do this but how are we gonna do this and then okay what happened at the end of it. Amazing great i get it you know and so in fifteen minutes at the world around you know we try to ask people tell the story in fifteen minutes.

What is a good timeframe, but way out of the average time of focus for everyone.

Beatrice Galilee (28:18.126)
It has like 240 page powerpoints in it.

Exactly. We are already having a conversation for half an hour. I think this is already too long, but we just keep going a little bit more. You can edit it. Yeah, exactly. To one minute and a half, or what is like a reel. When we talk about buildings, it's a question probably you get asked a lot as a writer, curator, et cetera, that works with architecture and design, but is there some kind of favorite space that you have? Not like, prefer the MoMA or I like...

JFK or some train station or something like that. But is there like some kind of environments that you like a lot because of the architecture or the design of how these spaces are made of?

Hmm. You know, I'm a pretty domestic person. mean, I'm very, I like my space, like things that I have created and everyone at the Waterloo works from home. I don't like offices. I don't like office spaces. I don't enjoy that commuting to a building and then going to a desk and then doing what I could have done in my own home, which is just have a laptop in front of me. So.

great.

Beatrice Galilee (29:31.214)
We all work remotely because we already have always enjoyed working remotely and I really love working from home. I find it very freeing. I like being in an environment that I have designed myself and this is my home.

Yeah. I really like airports. I like airports because there's movement. see many different people from everywhere. You have transportation, there's stuff going on. There's bureaucracy, there's something to eat, something to sit on in good airports at least. And it has a purpose. But if we now go back to, for example, the home, when you have it as an office, and I also work from home, I'm recording from like a home studio now, the purpose of the space becomes a totally different one or a new one that it wasn't planned to have.

when people thought about homes.

Yeah, I mean, during the pandemic, feel like everybody used every single square meter of their home in a way that maybe they had never done before. mean, I would sit on a sofa, you know, my partner would sit opposite and then we would switch. And then sometimes we would stay in this little thing and then he would be on that table and we would just have to coexist in this kind of world of spaces that we never really utilized. yeah, I think that we, we absolutely can do more with our homes. I think that.

It's a luxury to have an office or a separate space and to be able to commute and travel. But I also like being able to, I'm right now in Madrid, for example. So I like being able to work from Madrid and that's still be a normal office day for everyone in my team because I'm still on a laptop. I'm still on Slack. I'm still on the Google meet. So we can still operate as a, as an organization smoothly without that expectation of face time and checking in and.

Beatrice Galilee (31:14.008)
taking the coats off and small talk and all of that, which we try and do purposefully. So when we meet up, it's a social gathering. We don't talk about work and we are able to connect and be together.

Fantastic. So is the World Around team based in New York or everywhere all around the world?

little bit everywhere. We all work from wherever we are. Most of us are based in New York, but we have a member, a team member in London, and we have a team member who is sometimes in Buenos Aires. We are the Wilderness.

Yeah, fantastic. No, I wanted to ask you where did that name come from, but already got the answer.

It's actually was not based on that, but it's just about the idea of where we're looking and hopefully that we're sharing and enlightening a lot of what is going on in the world around it. And the platform is designed really to share more than just the traditional famous architects and famous buildings, but spotlight stories like Thailand, Bolivia, Sierra Leone and things that we've talked about today.

Moritz Gaudlitz (32:13.952)
Okay, fantastic. Not to finish that conversation, but I always like to ask also a bit uncomfortable questions. It sounds all very nice and very successful and I love the ideas, but I guess speaking of nowadays and the world around, if you look around, what are the challenges right now? If we also look at governmental shifts, not just in the U S but everywhere cuts and initiatives being also, let's say questioned by authorities. Is it also something that

architecture and design and your field is suffering from?

Yeah, of course. mean, we're on the front line of all of those things. think as architects and architectural people, it's obviously a super tough time. I mean, I think everybody feels that feeling that tomorrow is going to be worse than yesterday, that that is a very unsettling way of being. But I think part of the work that we're doing at The World Around is that we're not alone. If you include the US, like 70 % of the world is under dictatorships of some or other right now. Right. It's sort of.

At the same time, you know, we have to keep going. And I think that really the kind of resilience that we see in projects like Young Climate Prize is really important. And I think that, you know, we will get through this period, these dark times, you know, there will be light, we'll be back again. Like we do need to work through it and we also need to keep working through it. And yeah, we're not the only country in the U S that has a government that doesn't represent us. mean, there are.

In most of the world is like that. And so I think the feeling of kind of despair is sort of shared by many. so I think put it into context, I think is important and kind of keep going.

Moritz Gaudlitz (33:53.272)
Fantastic. Thank you. That's good. Also thinking about this idea that tomorrow is going to be better than today is something that keeps people motivated. And I think also that's what I try also to communicate. And my last question we arrived would be if there's one shift you'd like to see in how architecture and design is communicated and also understood because communicating doesn't mean also that everyone understands it. Do you have an idea what it would be or a vision?

I would like newspapers to cover architecture as kind of a current affairs. I think that architecture is lacking a central voice, I think, in the mainstream. It's kind of rarefied or a specialist topic, but I would like to see it a little bit more mainstream into newspapers and sort of media coverage. I think it can be part of a bigger conversation.

Thank you so much.

Thank you for having me, Moritz.

Moritz Gaudlitz (34:53.166)
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